[He knows.. a LITTLE about chocobos. Could ride, could care for them in a slipshod fashion. It was a 'just in case' measure in his time, by the time Zack got to joining up probably there was more reliance on machinery.
But while Vincent wasn't a Real Chocobo, he might do in a pinch, and have human level intelligence to go with it. He boots a little chunk of ice thoughtfully, watching it skitter down the slope.]
Otherwise it'd be spending Lore on getting one, and then what if the creation is affected by expectation? If I want it to have a good nose, it would have one.
Hmm... do you think you're creating new stuff, or just summoning it from somewhere? Because I've seen people get animals that remembered them and all. So maybe it wouldn't be making a chocobo with a good nose, but just summoning the right guy for the job?
[He distinctly remembers April implying that the Mayhem she got was her Mayhem, unless this newly-created version liked her and the name instantly. Zack's never gotten anything, like, sentient from home.]
....I don't know. If you expect your creation to remember you, then it's reasonable that it would.
[Feathers ruffle up; this is the exact sort of thing he'd want to put to the test but isn't sure how to actually DO SO without some seriously questionable choices.]
To be sure wouldn't you .. need to create or summon something intelligent enough to not only remember you, but remember things you were never involved in and thus couldn't simply add to the design? I'd have to ... try to create or summon a chocobo that .. knows you or something .. or ideally someone I haven't interacted with and thus wouldn't know to put into it..
[There's a downside to being the son of two scientists.]
Of course. It would be my responsibility. But it wouldn't answer the question of whether you're just making a copy of something based on your memory, or if you're making a copy of the actual creature with ITS memories intact.
[Doesn't everyone wonder this stuff?]
Wouldn't you want to know, if you were doing something like that?
Ehhh... [The most non-committal of noises.] I don't really care. Aren't we supposed to be copies in this world already? But we've got free will and we feel like ourselves, right? If it's a copy or the original, they'd still be real. So I wouldn't mind!
[It's not life or death important, there's no sense of the gravitas of that kind of important, no weight to it that suggests this is in fact, really relevant.]
Well I care. Not knowing is terrible, then I get stuck wondering about it. It might not change the end result, but ... it's still a mystery worth solving. Besides which, I don't think we're really copies.
[Had the relentless desire to know things been properly honed he'd likely be a scientist just like his parents, constantly and endlessly searching for answers. It remains focused for now on Lore and its implications.]
I can get Mr. Valentine to work guilt-free too, and he might take instructions better.
Accuracy is IMPORTANT, and occasional evaluation of his relationship to one of his mothers' adoring fans is not a bad thing.]
A combination, I think. He knows when I really want something versus if I just sort of want it, there's an .. emotional connection in our link to each other. But even then he won't if I don't actually ask.
[Sephiroth is not good at big sad eyes. But he can do want pretty well, and hiding it from someone tethered to his emotions is difficult.]
But things like sniffing out mushrooms might take both. You should try it out. ..Um, not on him though.
[Zack laughs, caught off guard by the last comment. Probably would be a bad idea to make suggestions related to any of this in Cloud's direction, considering the source, but the mental image of trying on Vincent is extra comical.
Thankfully he has other ways of convincing Cloud to do stuff for him. (That's not a teenage-Sephiroth-appropriate conversation, though.)]
Is there a mindreader bond thing? That's not one I've heard of. But you should always ask when you want something! How else are you gonna say please?
[While teenagers are usually well known for their rampant hormones that seems to have completely given Sephiroth a pass. Probably for the best. He doesn't need to know about all of that.]
I think just emotions, in our case. I can feel it when he's feeling something strongly enough, but I know it's him still, and I think it goes in reverse too. It doesn't do much else, I don't know enough about Familiars to know if that's normal or not.
Haha, well, it's not skin off my back either way. If Vincent wants to be a gopher-chocobo that's up to him. I'd ask him what it feels like on his end, buuuut every time we talk he just gets mad at me.
[BIG SHRUG. Also probably an exaggeration, but that's how it feels to him.]
He doesn't get as mad as it sounds much. But it's very hard to tell just looking at him.
[He's got the benefit there! Empathic link helps a lot. With the snow and ice leveling a bit, he sidesteps to poke a bit between the jagged pieces to see if there might be a cave behind it.]
He just has ... one expression, and one tone of voice. ... For everything he does. And they're not very friendly.
Probably why we don't mesh so good. When people get mad at me it's usually either for a good reason or a really stupid one, no in-between. If he always looks mad how am I supposed to guess!
[His follow-up doesn't often sound fair, either, so that just riles Zack up. Really, it'll be a miracle if they can get through a whole conversation staying civil. Anyway, he's glad Vincent's good with the kid. Considering the rocky start, they're doing great.]
Whatever he was looking for isn't there, possibly because entirely wrong part of the mountain, but he checks anyway because this is Folkmore and a lot of things already never made sense.]
Maybe he should have been the Legend, sometimes they have eyes that change color depending on mood.
[..they're both Legends. Did that happen to either of them?]
me giving up on trying to remember if this came up before: zack also forgot
At the mention of the eyes, Zack looks hesitant for a moment, then shrugs.]
Mine don't get the mood colours, they just go all cat-eyed when my wings are out.
[Something something Thirteen has a sense of humour. He's not actively letting himself overthink it or get bothered by it anymore. Helps that he's on good terms with a Sephiroth again; it's one fewer negative connection than it used to have.]
[he didn't exactly spend a lot of time in front of mirrors to find out. Wings are out right now - but even at a short distance it's not so easy to tell pupil shape on Zack. Or color. The alienness is easily hidden, if someone was just never looked at directly..]
It's kind of nice to not be the only one like that. ..Nero had the same pupils but his eyes were red.
[But Nero was gone, and had been for a while. Thirteen's whims cut or mended with the same knife it seemed.
He hides any sense of loss well by now, it's fairly casual.]
And he barely had any alien in him at all.. I wonder if it's from more ... Standard tampering?
[He grimaces, thinking back. He was definitely a strange one. But he was also... a special case.]
I think he was part of a different project. There's more scientists than Hojo doing weird shit to people off the public record. Deepground was probably some secret underground stuff, similar to whatever Hollander was doing.
[Nero had been strange, and his abilities stranger yet, it did put into perspective how bizarre things would get in the future. How broken the experiments.
But he'd been family of a sort. That was enough. Of course in retrospect they were both monsters, everything Shinra touched wound up corrupted in some fashion. They were no different. Sephiroth hoped Nero got to remember things when he returned to his time. Maybe it would help.]
Deepground was, as far as Nero could tell me, one of his projects too. That's where they send wounded SOLDIERs who 'retire' apparently. And then they used what they learned on little children.
[Something ELSE he needed to dismantle--]
But they're together, at least. Nero spoke of a few others. His brother Weiss. Azul, Rosso. It's not a big family, but it's something.
Huh... I think he mentioned that he had a brother. That's kinda weird for Hojo, havin' a group kept together. I wonder why... it's good, though, yeah. If they have to go through that shit, better they don't have to do it alone.
[Meanwhile he wishes Sephiroth didn't have to endure all that shit alone. At least he got friends later, but not soon enough.]
There's strength to be found in hunting in packs, for some predators. It's reasonable to train some SOLDIERs for solitary missions, [like himself.] and others for cooperative group assaults.
[It is a little different, flying versus climbing. When the ice and cold levels out a bit he turns to look back out over Wintermute; there's plenty to keep climbing and the view would improve but even from here it's interesting.
Whatever he might want, solitude or otherwise, those choices have been made for him. This, as small as it was, was his own decision. It might only be a mountain, but it was something.]
But it does hamper Shinra's much favored loyalty and obedience. I'm reasonably sure Nero didn't care at all about the company, and only had loyalty for his family.
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[He knows.. a LITTLE about chocobos. Could ride, could care for them in a slipshod fashion. It was a 'just in case' measure in his time, by the time Zack got to joining up probably there was more reliance on machinery.
But while Vincent wasn't a Real Chocobo, he might do in a pinch, and have human level intelligence to go with it. He boots a little chunk of ice thoughtfully, watching it skitter down the slope.]
Otherwise it'd be spending Lore on getting one, and then what if the creation is affected by expectation? If I want it to have a good nose, it would have one.
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[He distinctly remembers April implying that the Mayhem she got was her Mayhem, unless this newly-created version liked her and the name instantly. Zack's never gotten anything, like, sentient from home.]
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[Feathers ruffle up; this is the exact sort of thing he'd want to put to the test but isn't sure how to actually DO SO without some seriously questionable choices.]
To be sure wouldn't you .. need to create or summon something intelligent enough to not only remember you, but remember things you were never involved in and thus couldn't simply add to the design? I'd have to ... try to create or summon a chocobo that .. knows you or something .. or ideally someone I haven't interacted with and thus wouldn't know to put into it..
[There's a downside to being the son of two scientists.]
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[He really doesn't understand the problem.]
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[Doesn't everyone wonder this stuff?]
Wouldn't you want to know, if you were doing something like that?
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Well I care. Not knowing is terrible, then I get stuck wondering about it. It might not change the end result, but ... it's still a mystery worth solving. Besides which, I don't think we're really copies.
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[He's not fussed. He's also never had an identity or existential crisis, so he's got no chocobo in this race, figuratively or literally.]
But if I ever wish for a chocobo and it has a good nose, you can put 'em to work guilt-free.
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I can get Mr. Valentine to work guilt-free too, and he might take instructions better.
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[For extremely nefarious things like 'can you get me cheese sticks'.]
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Is it a familiar thing or the puppy-dog eyes? I should try something like that.
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Accuracy is IMPORTANT, and occasional evaluation of his relationship to one of his mothers' adoring fans is not a bad thing.]
A combination, I think. He knows when I really want something versus if I just sort of want it, there's an .. emotional connection in our link to each other. But even then he won't if I don't actually ask.
[Sephiroth is not good at big sad eyes. But he can do want pretty well, and hiding it from someone tethered to his emotions is difficult.]
But things like sniffing out mushrooms might take both. You should try it out. ..Um, not on him though.
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Thankfully he has other ways of convincing Cloud to do stuff for him. (That's not a teenage-Sephiroth-appropriate conversation, though.)]
Is there a mindreader bond thing? That's not one I've heard of. But you should always ask when you want something! How else are you gonna say please?
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I think just emotions, in our case. I can feel it when he's feeling something strongly enough, but I know it's him still, and I think it goes in reverse too. It doesn't do much else, I don't know enough about Familiars to know if that's normal or not.
[He assumes it is. Seems normal to him.]
But I do ask! When it's important enough.
[When he wants it enough!]
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[BIG SHRUG. Also probably an exaggeration, but that's how it feels to him.]
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[He's got the benefit there! Empathic link helps a lot. With the snow and ice leveling a bit, he sidesteps to poke a bit between the jagged pieces to see if there might be a cave behind it.]
He just has ... one expression, and one tone of voice. ... For everything he does. And they're not very friendly.
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[His follow-up doesn't often sound fair, either, so that just riles Zack up. Really, it'll be a miracle if they can get through a whole conversation staying civil. Anyway, he's glad Vincent's good with the kid. Considering the rocky start, they're doing great.]
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[Sephiroth's tone is momentarily terribly dry.
Whatever he was looking for isn't there, possibly because entirely wrong part of the mountain, but he checks anyway because this is Folkmore and a lot of things already never made sense.]
Maybe he should have been the Legend, sometimes they have eyes that change color depending on mood.
[..they're both Legends. Did that happen to either of them?]
me giving up on trying to remember if this came up before: zack also forgot
At the mention of the eyes, Zack looks hesitant for a moment, then shrugs.]
Mine don't get the mood colours, they just go all cat-eyed when my wings are out.
[Something something Thirteen has a sense of humour. He's not actively letting himself overthink it or get bothered by it anymore. Helps that he's on good terms with a Sephiroth again; it's one fewer negative connection than it used to have.]
part of it did!
[he didn't exactly spend a lot of time in front of mirrors to find out. Wings are out right now - but even at a short distance it's not so easy to tell pupil shape on Zack. Or color. The alienness is easily hidden, if someone was just never looked at directly..]
It's kind of nice to not be the only one like that. ..Nero had the same pupils but his eyes were red.
[But Nero was gone, and had been for a while. Thirteen's whims cut or mended with the same knife it seemed.
He hides any sense of loss well by now, it's fairly casual.]
And he barely had any alien in him at all.. I wonder if it's from more ... Standard tampering?
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[He grimaces, thinking back. He was definitely a strange one. But he was also... a special case.]
I think he was part of a different project. There's more scientists than Hojo doing weird shit to people off the public record. Deepground was probably some secret underground stuff, similar to whatever Hollander was doing.
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But he'd been family of a sort. That was enough. Of course in retrospect they were both monsters, everything Shinra touched wound up corrupted in some fashion. They were no different. Sephiroth hoped Nero got to remember things when he returned to his time. Maybe it would help.]
Deepground was, as far as Nero could tell me, one of his projects too. That's where they send wounded SOLDIERs who 'retire' apparently. And then they used what they learned on little children.
[Something ELSE he needed to dismantle--]
But they're together, at least. Nero spoke of a few others. His brother Weiss. Azul, Rosso. It's not a big family, but it's something.
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[Meanwhile he wishes Sephiroth didn't have to endure all that shit alone. At least he got friends later, but not soon enough.]
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[It is a little different, flying versus climbing. When the ice and cold levels out a bit he turns to look back out over Wintermute; there's plenty to keep climbing and the view would improve but even from here it's interesting.
Whatever he might want, solitude or otherwise, those choices have been made for him. This, as small as it was, was his own decision. It might only be a mountain, but it was something.]
But it does hamper Shinra's much favored loyalty and obedience. I'm reasonably sure Nero didn't care at all about the company, and only had loyalty for his family.
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